Despite releasing a Grammy-nominated album this year, J. Cole has not deviated from his reservations about interviews. The Dreamville Records founder is known for picking his spots with the press, and while he blessed The L.A. Leakers with one of 2021’s best freestyles, Cole left a mark with a performance—not an interview. However, on Christmas Day (December 25), Nardwuar released a fresh, hour-long episode with J. Cole that yielded plenty of jewels. Nardwuar, who is recognized for an unconventional style of questioning, has been able to score rare (and memorable) audiences with JAY-Z, Tyler, The Creator, and Billie Eilish.

The interview opens with a brief 2019 exchange between Cole and Nardwuar. Outside of Day N Vegas, Cole walks over to The Human Serviette and mentions that he will grant an interview in the next year or so. It’s a real moment and gesture, especially at a time when Cole’s 2018 conversation with Angie Martinez was his stone in the sand for the K.O.D. campaign.

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This month, in Santa Monica, California, Cole kept his promise to Nardwuar. He has Dreamville’s Omen and EARTHGANG with him in the studio for part of the interview. At the 40:00 mark, Nardwuar inquires about how Cole discovered the Atlanta, Georgia duo after seeing a show while they toured with Ab-Soul, Bas, and fellow Spillage Village act J.I.D. Cole adds that Keep Cole/RCA Records executive Tunji Balogun had sent him EARTHGANG’s music back in 2013 that stayed on his radar.

Then, at 43:30, Nardwuar shifts, “J. Cole, did you tell Dr. Dre about Kendrick [Lamar]?” Cole’s eyes suggest his shock. After a long, strained hesitation, Nardwuar repeats himself. Cole responds, “Who told you that? [Laughs] Who gave you that piece of information? [Chuckles].” The Human Serviette relies on his trademark answer: “Well, you’re J. Cole; we have to know.” After a third time asking and Cole pointing to his manager Ibrahim Hamad, the platinum artist confirms, “The answer is yes, I did. I’m not gonna say I was the first [person] to tell [Dr. Dre]. When I brought him up to Dre—I went in there working on Detox or whatever [he was doing at the time]. You know how Dre do: if you’re a young rapper and he rocks with you, he wants to bring you through and have you test the waters. So I [went] and was like, ‘Yo, you gotta sign this kid from Compton, boom boom, Kendrick, boom boom.'” Cole adds that A&R Manny Smith reminded Dre at the time that he had been suggesting Kendrick Lamar’s music, too. Years later, Hits Daily Double credited Smith (who was later promoted to Senior Vice President of A&R) with linking Kendrick Lamar to Aftermath through a joint venture with Top Dawg Entertainment.

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Cole continues, “Manny was like, ‘Oh yeah, that’s the kid I was telling you about, [Dr. Dre]. So I have no clue—’cause that’s a thing I’ve never heard anybody say that type of sh*t, but, yeah. Shout out to Dr. Dre; he made the right decision.” Nardwuar follows up, “Did you want to sign Kendrick?” Cole responds, “One hundred percent; I don’t know what I would have signed him to; we didn’t have our business intact. [Chuckles] But that’s how much I rocked with him at that time. I met him, and was instantly highly impressed. I was like, damn. That would’ve been the first [Dreamville] artist in my mind. Come to find out, he had bigger sh*t going on. So yeah.”

Cole’s album discography has been distributed by the same Interscope Records that Dr. Dre has worked closely with for nearly 30 years. In 2011, he produced “HiiiPoWeR,” the lead video single from Kendrick Lamar’s Section.80. At the top of that year, Kendrick revealed that he was considering signing with Dre after the O.G. had co-signed his skills. In 2012, K-Dot confirmed making the deal with Dre and Aftermath. By 2014, Cole and Ibrahim Hamad had established Dreamville and began releasing Interscope-distributed albums by Bas and another Los Angeles MC, Cozz. After Cole worked on tracks that ultimately missed good kid, m.A.A.d City, Kendrick would guest on Cole’s Born Sinner, and made backup vocal contributions to 2019’s Grammy-nominated Revenge Of The Dreamers label compilation.

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Despite a confirmed competitive rivalry, Kendrick and Cole have worked closely with each other’s labels throughout their stardom. However, as fans were once teased with a collaboration album between Cole and Kendrick (including a vaulted song produced by Oddisee), Heads now get some new details in the mix. Earlier this year, Kendrick announced his upcoming amicable departure from TDE, and presumably the joint venture with Dre and Aftermath.

J. Cole’s The Off-Season was named one of Ambrosia For Heads‘ best albums of 2021. Next month it will compete for “Best Rap Album” at the 2022 Grammy Awards. “My Life” and “Pride Is The Devil” are also up for trophies in the various Rap song categories.

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#BonusBeat: A recent episode of Ambrosia For Heads‘ What’s The Headline podcast that compares J. Cole to Tim Duncan: