Joe Budden sits down with Freddie Gibbs on the latest episode of Pull Up. On a New York City rooftop, the two men discuss a number of topics. The Gary, Indiana native stresses that he wants to be included on the Top MCs lists, which Budden is no stranger to, in a social media phenomenon this August. Madlib’s Bandana collaborator also reveals that he plans to pivot into Comedy and podcasting in the future, while still having “10 more albums” in him. Gibbs also explains why he respects and enjoys Lil Nas X in 2019 as a father of two, while admitting that 10 years ago, that may not have been the case.

At 1:05:00, Freddie Gibbs discusses highlights from his catalog, apart from two full-length collaborations with Madlib. Specifically, the MC mentions FETTI, a less than one-year-old album he made with Curren$y, produced entirely by Alchemist. “That’s another album that I feel like people slept on,” Gibbs says. Joe says he never heard the album. “There is a reason I didn’t listen to it; I’ll tell you off-air.” Freddie tells Budden that he knows the reason.

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The conversation moves to Gibbs opening up about why he feels the independent LP did not reach more people. “It’s an amazing album. I wish Curren$y would’ve helped me pump it, but whatever. That’s the Rap game. [It] got ni**as like that. Shout out to Curren$y; I love Curren$y, but I wish he would’ve helped me with that album.” Budden asks if that is part of the responsibility of a collaborator. Gibbs insists it is, given that there is a product to promote. He adds that no videos were made for the nine-song effort, and that was because of the New Orleans, Louisiana MC.

“Y’all did a project together. That was agreed upon. That, for everybody, also don’t mean I’m agreeing to promote it, I want it to do the best, I’ma be in the videos—everybody don’t commit to the whole project. So what I’m saying is, was he wrong in that?” Gibbs responds that Curren$y is not wrong. “But me personally, I wish it would’ve went differently.” As Joe asks why the videos weren’t made, Gibbs says, “Bro. That’s a whole ‘nother conversation. [Laughs]” He also insists it was not about compensation. “Curren$y rich too; it wasn’t a money thing.” Gibbs says that he is happy the album exists, is part of three artist’s legacies, and it can never be held against them for not creating the body of work.

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The issue resonates with Budden. “That’s exactly why I never wanted to work with ni**as, my entire career. It’s a headache—well for me, it always turned out to be a headache, without reaping the success from it.” Gibbs says he is incapable of being in a group. Although some of the MC’s best work is with partners, he waves off the maintenance. “That’s why there ain’t that many groups! Show me a group! That’s why I like the Migos.” The guest chants the chorus to the Quavo and Lil Yachty’s “Ice Tray,” which dissed Budden following their 2017 BET red carpet confrontation. “That’s the only group!” Budden agrees, but states that Quavo, Offset, and Takeoff “make enough money to not have any issues. Eventually, groups start fighting about money.” Gibbs points out that even duos are a rarity.

“To look at what’s comin’, we’ve got to see where we’ve been,” Joe says. “If we look at the history of every single group, we have data to show it’s not maintainable.” He points to EPMD and Wu-Tang Clan as examples, both of whom have had turmoil remaining together. “Sh*t, as far as Slaughterhouse, I thought we was one of the groups that could’ve changed that. I felt like that. Like, we all cared about each other, and loved each other, and had each other’s best interests at heart. But I hate labels. That’s gonna always [change things]. Yeah. I f*ck a lot of sh*t up, man.”

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Gibbs asks the host, “So that’s why y’all not doing the group thing no more?” Joe responds, “That’s why I ain’t doin’ it. I can’t speak for why they’re not doing it. When I suggested that they find probably another rapper to take my place and still put out music, they didn’t think that was the greatest idea. And that was years ago; that might’ve changed. But my fight, with that even, without the extra Eminem bullsh*t is just ownership. I cannot devote this much of my time to a project, eat a fourth from the project, and then have it go up the chain of command and have all these ni**as making sure our project do what it gotta do and then we gettin’ the scraps from the bottom? That was my fight.”

Joe adds that he had this mentality as a solo artist on Def Jam and eOne years before Slaughterhouse signed with Eminem’s Shady Records. Without Joe, Crook, Joell, and Royce appeared on “Timberlan’d Up (Remix)” in 2018. Last year, on his podcast, Joe opened up about his reasoning for challenging Eminem and Shady Records while Slaughterhouse was making its third album. With tension from artist and label preventing the LP being finished, Kxng Crooked left the group, which subsequently disbanded.

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Earlier this month, Crooked told People’s Party host Talib Kweli that he wants Joe, Royce 5’9, Joell Ortiz, and himself to release a third and final album to finish what the quartet started more than a decade ago.